Grace versus Law

Tonight’s subject is “Grace versus Law.” We’re told in the very first chapter of the Book of John, “The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” Unnumbered volumes have been written about this grace versus law.

Tonight I’m speaking not through theory; I’m speaking from experience. And so we’re called upon to pass on to other generations, succeeding generations, our testimony. As we’re told in the 1stepistle of John, 1stchapter, the first three verses: “That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard and seen with our eyes… that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also unto you, so that you may have fellowship with us.” For these are the two births that take place in every individual in the world. No one brings about his own physical birth; he is born by the action of powers not his own. And no one brings about his own spiritual birth; he is born by the action of powers beyond his own. The first, we admit we are here, clothed in this garment of flesh. We find ourselves here, but we know we never had a thing to do about it; it’s simply we found ourselves here. So you will find yourself born spiritually in the same miraculous manner. You’ll be born from above, just as you are born here from below. Here, we are born from below from the womb of a woman. Then will come another act, God’s mightiest act, and you will be begotten and born from above by the action of powers not your own.

We turn first to the law. In the very beginning, God established the law of identical harvest: “And let the earth put forth vegetation, trees yielding seeds, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its own kind” (Genesis 1:11). Here we find the harvest is nothing more than the multiplication of the identical seed. “Be not deceived; God is not mocked, whatever a man sows, so shall he reap” (Galatians 6:7). That’s in this world, this law. Tonight I will show you what I have found about this sowing.

Causation in our world is really mental. It was not always known as amentalstate. It was believed in the beginning to be physical, and so laws were instituted and men abided by these laws outwardly; they observed the law. Then came the great revelation of “grace” that interpreted the law, thus bringing grace. “For,” said he, “do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.” And then he interprets law for us and puts it on amentalplane: “You have heard it said by men of old, ‘Thou shalt not’” and he states it; “But I say unto you,” and then he puts it on an entirely different level. And not one statement conveys it more graphically than, “You’ve heard it said of old, ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery.’ But I say unto you, to look upon a woman lustfully is to have already committed the act with her in your heart’” (Matthew 5:27). Not to restrain the impulse, that’s not good enough; but not having the desire, then you haven’t committed the act. But to have the desire and because of the consequences of your act, you restrain the impulse, that is still not good enough. The act was committed with the impulse.

Now here, we are on an entirely different level, a mental level, and this is what I discovered about this level. I could stand here physically and see any part of this world mentally by assuming that I am there, and then viewing the worldfromthat assumption rather than thinkingofthat state. Standing here, if I desire to be elsewhere, although at the moment, my reason tells me I can’t afford it, my senses tell me I haven’t the time—you’re committed, you’ll be here next Friday; you couldn’t get there and be back, so here you are—you’re stuck. But I desire to be elsewhere. So reason and my senses deny that I could be because I just shouldn’t be there. But standing here, let me now assume that I am where I would like to be, and then let me mentally view the worldfromthat assumption as though it were true, just as though it were true.

Well, I know from my own experience that if I dare to do it, everything in this world that would tie me here, there will be a reshuffling of the events of life and compel the journey on my part. And it would; that assumption of mine would build a bridge of incidents across which I would move to the fulfillment of that state, and no power in the world could stop it. I would walk across a series of events. From the very moment that I do it, things would happen to compel me to go, and I physically as a man could not resist it. Things would happen tocompelthe journey if I dare to assume that I am elsewhere while physically I am really here.

Now the same thing is true not only of a physical journey but a journey into other states like wealth, like fame, and like anything in this world. What would it be like were I—then I name the experience. Suppose now, at this very moment, I desired, say, a certain security that I do not now enjoy. But I want it; I hunger for it. What would it be like were I now in possession of security? Let me now make the same psychological motion, all in my Imagination, and then view the world from that assumption just as though it were true. If I dare to assume that it’s so, I may regret tomorrow that I did it, I may, but that’s my choice. I can acquaint you with this law and then leave you to your choice and its risk. Many a person had nothing and hungered for wealth and they got it, but, oh, what things happened to them when they got it. They wanted it. And if you want it, take it. You can always give it up.

But here is the law by which manmovesin this world. So I will acquaint you with the law and show you how I operate it and how it works. But may I tell you, no matter how good you are in this world and no matter how wisely you operate the law, it doesn’t in any way qualify you for the second radical change in your life, which is called grace. That’s the second birth. The twice-born man has received grace, and grace is God’s gift of himself to man—that’s grace. No matter how wise you are, you’re on the wheel with the first birth, playing it as wisely as you can—and I hope you will play it wisely when you hear the law and how to operate it. But it cannot in any way qualify you for the second birth. That is grace—that’s the gift. You cannot bring that about any more than you brought about the first.

Now the second birth, it’s sheer fantasy. It’s called not salvation; grace is salvation. “What must I do?” they ask the question. Well, he made the statement, “What if you owned the whole vast world and lose your life?” Then said he, “It’s so much easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24). And they said to him, “Thenwhocan be saved?” He said, “With men it is impossible; but nothing is impossible to God.” With men, yes, it’s impossible; he can’t save himself. When a man tells you he is a self-made man, he’s not speaking from any knowledge of this mystery, no self-made man. For this is a gift, the second is a complete gift.

And what is the secret of God’s election? I do not know. I can’t tell you. I can only share with you what I’ve experienced and tell you how it comes. It’s a process, and it happens so suddenly. It comes without any warning. No one knows the moment it’s going to come, and suddenly you’re born. You are actually born, without… you are consciously born. I have no conscious memory of being born from my mother’s womb, none whatsoever. I was born on a certain day of a certain month of a certain year in a certain little island in the West Indies. I was born; I had no knowledge of it, and then gradually consciousness possessed me. Then when I was maybe three or maybe not quite four, I began to function consciously with memory, but memory didn’t go back to my mother’s womb.

But the second birth is something as though you’re actually doing it to yourself, and every moment of time is conscious and so vividly and vividly alive. The whole thingyouare doing. From the very moment to the very end of the birth it is taking place in you, and out of your own wonderful being, you are coming. Until that moment, you didn’t know that you were dead. You took it for granted that you were alive and that one day the body would die; and so whether you survived or not, you didn’t know, but that would be death. Those who saw you put away, whether cremated or in the earth, they would say good-bye to you, and they would speak of you as someone who’s dead… but not while you walked the earth with them. And yet here comes the moment in time when suddenly a power beyond your wildest dream is taking placeinyou. You aren’t doing it; you have no control; it’s being done to you. And as the power is intensified, you awake. You always thought prior to that moment that you were awake. You always thought prior to that moment that you were alive and walking about the earth. Here, for the first time in eternity, you are awakening in a tomb, and the tomb is your skull. You find yourself completely sealed and entombed in your own skull, and you’re fully awake for the first time in eternity.

Then begins the birth, and you come out like one being self-born, truly begotten by yourself. Out you come, and the entire drama as described for us in the gospels you are enacting. You are being self-born. The witnesses become present, and they appear to witness this event in eternity. They can’t see you because you are invisible. But you’re more real than they are, more real than anything in the world at that moment and yet you are invisible. And then you know what it means: “God is spirit, and those who worship him worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24) and “As God has life in himself”—God the Father—“so now he grants the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26). And so all of a sudden, you awake; and the force, this intense power that you feel coming from you, now seems to be in the corner of the room and centered all over. And all of a sudden, it comes to the end, and you return once more, enclosed in this simple little garment out of which you had just for a moment emerged with the most fantastic drama in the world.

That was grace, but it comes in stages: it has three fantastic parts. That first one is simply your birth from above to fulfill the 3rdof John: “You must be born from above, for unless you be born from above you cannot in any wise enter the kingdom of heaven,” which fulfills that chapter (verse 3). Then comes the second, when God really gives you himself. And then suddenly a similar power possesses you and you’re carried with it; you can’t stop it, not a thing you can do about it. Suddenly, as you are carried with it, you explode; your whole being explodes, and here he presents you with his Son.

Now the eighteenth verse of the first chapter, we are told, “Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ,” right after we’re told how it comes: it comes through Jesus Christ, grace comes and the truth comes. Then we are told, “No man has ever seen the Father; the Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.” You didn’t know that you contained within you the Son of God. You had no idea you did. Suddenly there’s an explosion, and he stands before you, and he calls you Father. You don’t see yourself;hecalls you Father, and you know he’s your son. And here, the father-son relationship is established forever. He calls you Father to fulfill the eighty-ninth Psalm: “I have found him… I have found David, and he cried unto me, ‘Thou art my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation,’” the fulfillment of the great 89th Psalm, the Messianic psalm (verse 26). You look at him, and there’s no doubt in your mind who he is; there’s no doubt in his mind who you are. It takes the Son to reveal the Father, and you didn’t know for one moment you were he until the Son reveals you to yourself. And then the third in the great gift is when out of the blue, you are torn in two, from top to bottom; and then you ascend, a living being, something that is fiery and alive. You ascend right into Zion, which is your skull.

And these three parts mark the great gift, called in the Bible “grace,” an unearned, unmerited gift. No one in this world is good enough to earn it; therefore,allwill get it. God actually expresses to man a mercy with which man is incapable with his conscience of ever judging himself as worthy of redeeming. No man in this world with conscience and memory could ever judge himself as mercifully as God does. So what man has done, I’ve certainly done it, you’ve done it, and the whole vast world has done it; and we are so sinful while we are here in this world of law, of doing it. And in spite of our limitations, in spite of our weaknesses, God’s infinite mercy brings about the second birth. And we’re all lifted up in this eternal place where we’re put into the everlasting temple that God is making out of us, making out of himself, for he gives himself to man before man can be fitted into the everlasting temple. And no one can fit your place. No one can fill my place. Not one can be displaced; not one in any way can be rubbed out. The temple would be unfinished. I know from my own experience that not one can be unsaved. I don’t care who he is; no matter what he has done in this world, everyone will be saved. What must I do to be saved?Believethe gospel.

Now we are told that we could delay it That’s why I find it difficult to believe that. But still it’s scripture; the 4rh chapter of the Book of Hebrews, “And the good news preached unto us was also preached unto them; but it did not benefit them, because it was not mixed with faith in the hearer.” Now tonight some of you could reject it, and that may appear on the surface to delay your call and it may—I do not know. I have no assurance that you could delay it. But it would appear that rejection on the part of one because he heard it but did not accept it because it didn’t make sense to him, therefore, he rejected it. And I tell you, those who reject it—and maybe by your rejection, you delay your call—eventually you’re going to be called. Because he’ll put you through all the paces of the world until finally you have no power to reject the story when you hear it.

But while we’re here in this world of law, let me now quote you the 1stPsalm—it’s a marvelous benediction: “Blessed is the man… who delights in the law of the Lord… who meditates on it day and night. For, inallthat he does, he prospers” (verses 1-3). But inallthat he does, not a few things but in everything. And the law is so simple if you jump to the foundation that ismental, it’s not physical. Go to church as the people who practice it outwardly thought it would in some way bring good for them, but that wasn’t it. It’s mental. Causation is mental, so the law is mental. SoI’mthe law. For “blessed is the man who delights in the law… meditating it day and night… for in all that he does, he prospers”—inall.

So you think now of the man you would like to be, and you seem so remote from such a man and can’t conceive of being that man in the immediate present. All right, you think so. I tell you, try this law: What would it be like if now my closest friend saw in me what they wouldn’t dream ever, prior to this moment, of ever seeing me? What would it be like? How would I see him? How would he see me were it true? What would the world think if they knew that I am and I name it? What would they see? Well, then sit perfectly still and let them see you. Walk now by faith not by sight. I’m going to call a thing that is not as though it were, knowing that the unseen will become seen. So I call myself just as though I were the man that I’d like to be. So you who are taking notes, that’s the fourth chapter, seventeenth verse of Paul’s letter to the Romans: “He calls a thing that is not seen as though it were seen, and the unseen becomes seen.” So I will call something that is not seen just as though it were seen and let the unseen become seen.

You try it. May I tell you that it will not fail you. No power in the world can stop it from crystallizing into fact if you try it. For the things that are seen, we’re told in the 11thchapter of Hebrews, were made from things that do not appear. All the things you see were made from things that do not appear ___(??)—you’ll find it in the 3rdverse—all the things in the world. You see a man, well, what made him what he is? Well, he once assembled a certain mental state, and knowingly or unknowingly, he fell into it. Falling into it, he remained there long enough for it to take on that initial statement of God: “All things must bring forth after their kind,” the law of identical harvest. The harvest is only the multiplication of the identical seed.

So I fall into a state. I do it wittingly or unwittingly, but I fall into a state. Remaining in the state, suddenly the ___(??) comes out. Someone begins to appear in my world; he seems to be instrumental in making me move forward in the direction that I should go. I may, on reflection, thinkhe, the instrument that moved me forward by certain contacts, was the cause of my being forward. No, the cause was unseen. As you are told, things seen were made from things that do not appear. He appears, so he can’t be the cause. And so I look back on my world and see all the people that seemed to be instrumental and helpful in moving me forward, but they’re seen, and causation is mental. So things that are now seen that are made were made from things that do not appear. But if that is true, then he—I’ll thank him for what he did, but I can’t claim that he was the cause of my good fortune. So he introduced me to the right people and all things added up to the things that I am assuming. But the cause of it all was my assumption and my faithfulness to that assumption. So I dare to assume that I am or that you are what I would like you to be. Assuming that you are what I would like you to be and I feel that you would like to be, I am unmoved in that assumption and you become it, without your knowledge or your consent. I don’t need your consent and I don’t need your knowledge if causation is mental.

So I warn you of the law and leave you to your choice and its risks because you could use it unwisely. But my hands are now washed of that. I cannot stop it. I tell you the law and leave you to your choice. I can’t be like a mother over you, saying that you should not do this. For you’re told in the Book of Deuteronomy, “I place before you this day good and evil, life and death, blessings and cursing; choose life” (30:19). He suggests that you choose life, but he can’t take from you the right, having set you free, to choose anything you want. So he puts before you life and death, good and evil, blessings and cursing, and suggests you choose life; but he cannot deny you the right to choose anything. It’s all spread before you. When you imagine something unlovely of another, it will come to pass. It will boomerang too, but it will come to pass. So you are entirely free to imagine anything in this world, for imagining creates reality. A man imagines. If he imagines it and persists in that imaginal act, it will come to pass. And that’s the law.

For if there were no other than the wise use of law, to own the whole vast world and yet not to be redeemed from that wheel of recurrence, this would become the most horrible hell in the world. Fortunately, God started in the beginning a plan of redemption, and it’s grace where he saves us from the wheel of recurrence. What is his great secret where he picks you at one moment of time and picks another at one moment of time to put him into that eternal structure, the everlasting temple, not made with hands? I do not know. I must confess I do not know. I only know he promises to build a temple for us, anonymously, and we are the temple. We are the temple of the living God, a temple in which God will dwell. And yet we are free beyond the wildest dream of man, for we are God himself in the structure called the New Jerusalem.

So here, use the law wisely for yourself and for others. Every time you exercise your Imagination lovingly on behalf of another, you are literally mediating God to a man, literally. Do it. But may I tell you, if you are the most loving being in the world, the most generous being in the world, and the kindest being in the world, you still cannot by your own effort be born from above. It’s a gift, an unearned gift. You can’t be good enough. To me that’s the most exciting thought in the world because no man could look me in the eye and tell me that he feels himself worthy of such a birth. With a memory and a conscience, he couldn’t possibly do it. I know I’m twice born. The second, every second of it, is so vividly alert in my mind’s eye. I can go through the whole thing now mentally and reenact the entire scene. And yet with the memory of my past, I would say, “Neville, you are unworthy of this.” And therefore, because I know in my heart I am unworthy of it, I can say to every being in the world, “You’re going to get it.”

If I felt I wasworthyof it, then I’d have to go out and try to make everyone good as I would conceive myself to be. But I don’t conceive myself to be good, as the world calls good. I’ve done unnumbered things of which I would be ashamed, and I still feel I am capable under stress of doing things of which I would be ashamed. And yet I have had the grace of God, the second birth from above. And I can’t conceive of anything more encouraging in the world than to share with others your own experiences and tell them that they cannot lift themselves by their own bootstraps. This is an act of mercy, and mercy is God in expression, for God is love and mercy is love in action.

The mightiest act of God is that act when you, the sound sleeper, he awakens. And you don’t know you’re asleep. I certainly did not know I was asleep. I hadn’t the slightest idea that I was dead, and to find myself walking this earth for fifty-odd years and suddenly to find myself awakening in a tomb? And then discover the great mystery of it all: that he was buried in Golgotha, and Golgotha is the skull? And that was literally true, and it washewho was buried? And then to go back and reread the scripture and to read: “I have been crucifiedwithChrist; it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20). He gave himself for me the second he became me, but I didn’t know it.

I didn’t actually know that the being that I think I am, that I am he. That he is every being in the world or that being couldn’t live. That no child born of woman could cross the threshold that admits to conscious life without the death of God. That he died to make me alive. The mystery of life through death: that I became alive through his death. And then this mighty act of resurrecting himself, but he resurrects himself as you. And so all of a sudden, there’s no change of identity; you awake, but you are he. Then you know the great mystery of the epistle of John: “It does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know when he appears we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2). We shall be like him. Well, if there’s no change in your identity, therefore, who is he? No change whatsoever in your identity, therefore, who is he?—your very being.

All of a sudden you awaken. But may I tell you that the full glory of your inheritance—you inherit heaven—but the full glory of that inheritance is not fully realized in you or, for the moment, it’s not fully grasped by you while you are still in this body. You must then play the part of the apostle and share it with those who will listen to you until that moment in time comes when he takes off the garment. And then that which ascended is completely displayed to you and to the heavenly host. But you have played and shared with the others all that you have experienced. It’s called the apostolic testimony: “That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard and seen with our eyes… that which we have seen and heard we now proclaim unto you, that you may share with us this fellowship” (1 John 1:1-3).

And then that fabulous passage that always closes the Anglican service, which in our country is the Episcopal service. It’s taken from the last verse of Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (13:14). What a benediction! To say to a gathering like this that, May thegraceof the Lord Jesus Christ—that was the second birth that comes from the love of God, that through such a birth you may have and share the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, and may it be with you all. And so that’s how in all Anglican services they told it in the hope that someone or maybe all would in the not distant future share in that fellowship. But it’s the last verse of that 13thchapter of 2ndCorinthians, and to me, it’s the most inspiring, just to read it and just try to feel it.

And so grace versus law is not really in conflict. For he said, “I have come not to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17). Peter in his first letter, that tenth verse of the first chapter, identifies grace with salvation. He said, “The prophets who prophesied of thegracethat was to be yours, they searched and inquired about this salvation.” So he associated grace with salvation—that when it is given, he’s saved, he’s been redeemed. But because no one can playyourpart,youwill be redeemed. Don’t go back in memory and try to find other things you could undo toward salvation. Do that toward this world to make yourself happier and freer in this world, but not toward salvation. Because if it was not for God’s infinite mercy to hide your past from you, you couldn’t live with yourself. No man in this world could live with himself if he could now bring back into memory the past; he couldn’t because you have played all the parts. You’ve been a long, long time in coming; and at the very end, you will have playedallthe parts. Therefore, in the end, you too can say, “Forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).

There’s a purpose to God’s play, a fabulous purpose. As Blake said, “Do not let yourself be intimidated by the horror of the world. Everything is ordered and correct and must fulfill its destiny in order to achieve perfection.” But you’ve played it. I have played it. Had I not played all the horrible parts of the world, I could not have be merciful when I read about them in the papers. I could not in my heart feel that some mercy should be expressed when you see these horrible stories told in the press. Had I not played it, I couldn’t have been the impulse for mercy. But in the end, having played all, you’ll forgive all. And so every being in the world will have played all and therefore fitted himself for God’s use in the building of his temple.

I can’t get away from a sense of predestination when I read scripture, the 8thchapter of the Book of Romans: “We are called according to his purpose. For those whom heforeknewhe also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified” (verse 29). You cannot take these five terms, foreknowledge, predestination, called, justification, and glorification, and interpret them in any way to avoid the conclusion of predestination. I don’t see how you can. We were with him in the foundation of time, we’re told. He called us in the beginning before that the world was, and now he calls us according to his purpose, when this section of his fabulous—you can’t conceive of it—living structure is about to be completed. And only you can fit, butonlyyou, that one portion of it. So he calls you. And the one called he had predestined to be called. And the one called he justifies—you can’t be justified by your actions—hejustifies you. And then he glorifies you. And glorification is his gift of himself to you, as told us in the 17thchapter of the gospel of John: “Father, glorify thou me with thine own self.” So he glorifies the individual with himself. So the entire five terms lead to one conclusion of a predestined, foreknown state. He foreknew the entire thing and was building toward it.

Now the opposite of grace is disgrace. The Bible speaks of it as “the wrath of God, the anger of God.” We know what it is to be in disgrace. Grace is the unearned gift, the greatest thing in the world, and the gift of God himself. And the opposite would be the almostabsenceof God. Now the 23rdchapter of the Book of Jeremiah makes this statement: “The anger of the Lord will not turn back until he has executed and accomplished the intents of his mind. In the latter days you will understand it clearly” (verse 20). It seems that God has forsaken us when we go through a war, when we go through some horrible disgrace, where the world has collapsed upon us. A child has gone astray, and society frowns upon us because we are the parents of that child. Or maybe my husband or my wife has done something that has disgraced the family and the community. And God has forsaken us. And so I’m passed through the fires of affliction, these horrible fiery ordeals; disgrace, the opposite of grace where God seemed to be with me and guided me. But he will not turn back until he’s accomplished the intents of his mind. In the latter days, you will understand it clearly and forgive all and be happy that he in his infinite wisdom and mercy could put me through that fiery ordeal to bring me out qualified to fit into his eternal temple.

So no one will be condemned in the end. No one will be unsaved. So when they ask you, “What must I do to be saved?” Go to scripture and show them that “with man it is impossible”—that’s the 10thchapter of the Book of Mark. With man, no, it isn’t possible—Mark 10:26, 27—but “withGodallthings are possible.” But they couldn’t understand how any man could be saved after he told them what he had told them, about the camel and the rich man. Now the rich does not mean necessarily a man who has money. As the very first beatitude tells you, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall receive the kingdom” (Matthew 5:3). Thepoorin spirit is the one who is not complacent. In other words, not everyone who has money is complacent. You could be socially prominent and be very complacent—you’re above it all. Or you could be intellectually a snob. You have your PhD, you have all these degrees behind you, and you’re above it all. You know everything because conferred upon you is a degree given by man. You ask others, “Have you a degree?” No. “Not even a little one?” No. And so then all of a sudden you become the grand snob. And they are all over the world. In this world of ours, there is so much of reallearnedignorance.

I’m not saying that all who have their degrees are. You should get it, but you cannot by these earn the kingdom no matter what you do, for the wisdom of this world isfoolishnessin the eyes of God. Not a thing that man knows here through his efforts will in any way function where he is destined to be. For he’s rising into a world that will be completely subject to his imaginative power, but completely subject to it. Everything in the world will be under his control, but everything. Because God, having given himself to man and being all-wise, he’ll be all-wise; God being all-powerful, he’ll be all-powerful; God being all-loving, he’ll be all-loving. For he gives himself to man. And in that world, there’s nothing that is not under his control but nothing. And so you will not be replaced by anyone, and all will be equal in the eyes of God because it’s himself. He can’t be more than what he gave you. So one cannot be greater, because he can’t get more than God gave him, for he gave him himself. It is his purpose to give you himself as though there were no other in the world, just God and you, and finally, only you because he actually gave himself to you.

Now let us go into the Silence.

Q:   (inaudible)

A:   (inaudible)

Q:   (inaudible)

A:   No, my dear. The wheels of Ezekiel are not incarnations. There are two births: this birth and the spiritual birth. But man does not die when he appears to die. I have gone into worlds as real as this world, just as real. And so if you do not have the second birth before the world calls you dead, don’t think you’re dead. You will have it. And in that world into which I have gone, people are just as solidly real as they are here. I don’t put my hands around them and go through them; they’re solid, just as solid as you are. And yet it’s not this world. Seated in my chair or on my couch, I have seen a world that I should not see because reason drifted and I knew that my eye is closed. I am seeing something that is so vividly real, and with my eyes open, I should not be able to see that. I should see the familiar pictures on the wall and the familiar objects in my room, but I’m not seeing that. And then consciousness follows my vision, and I stepped into the world that I contemplate. Stepping into that world, it closes around me like closing the door, and I’m completely shut out of this world. I’m in that world, and that world is just as real as this. But that’s not heaven; that’s this world. These are worlds within worlds within worlds where man completes his wonderful—call it evolution, if you will; I don’t like the name or the word but call it that—completes his evolution within this peculiar time slot. Within that time slot, he completes it.

Q:   (inaudible)

A:   How would I explain my experience in the void? Well, when I step into these worlds, the world is just as real as this, just as real as this. That I have had an experience of the void? Yes. We’ve all had ___(??), but that’s not the world of which I speak. When a man dies here, he doesn’t really die. I’ve made the statement time and again: the little flower that blooms once blooms forever. It doesn’t die. I’ll take it from my lapel, pluck it out of my lapel, and throw it away. But it cannot die. He’s the God of the living, not the dead.

It was revealed so vividly, but man doesn’t quite see it. And all of a sudden, Moses of thousands of years and Elijah of thousands of years appear on the mount of transfiguration, proving I am the God of the living not the dead. Nothing dies. You can be shot and be perfectly riddled with holes, but you can’t die. And you’re not gossamer; you’re solidly real. You can be hurt in that world as you can be hurt here. There’s a difference between survival and resurrection. Survival is continuity; resurrection is discontinuity. Entirely different worlds. When one is resurrected, they enter heaven; they enter an entirely different world. But when one survives, it’s a continuous state. But memory is short, and the presentation is not quite the presentation as it was here; therefore, he doesn’t remember. He doesn’t remember. He comes upon a scene that heshouldremember, but it came in a different sequence and so he doesn’t remember.

Q:   (inaudible)

A:   I say, in my own case, I fused with God. That was not any fourth dimension or any other dimension; it was simply heaven. I was brought into his presence and presented to the Ancient of Days. And when I answered the question he asked of me and I answered it correctly, “the greatest thing in the world is love,” he embraced me. In that vivid embrace, I fused with his body and became one with the body of God—a delight that you cannot describe in words. There’s no way to describe it. And in that sheer delight in the body of God, I was then brought before the presence of infinite might and commanded to act. So I can’t say it was any fourth dimension or sixth dimension or any other dimension. I only know that I became one with the body of the being who embraced me. And I have no knowledge that there was ever a divorce, one with that body, although I am individualized here.

And so the drama was completed as stated in the very beginning of the Book of Genesis. Read it in the end of the second chapter. For the commandment of God to man is really God to himself. And so a man must leave all and cleave to his wife until they become one flesh (verse 24). As you’re told in the 54thchapter of the Book of Isaiah, “Your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name” (verse 5). So my Maker is my husband, and the Maker is God. He has to leave all and cleave to me until we became one flesh. And inthatday we became one flesh, and there’s been no divorce or separation since. Yet I’m wearing this garment that is subject to all the ills and misfortunes of the journey.

But that drama took place in the soul. And he had to create me, and he was my Maker and he’s my husband and I am his bride. I must bear his Son. And I bore his Son. And yet we are one. I, a man, a father of two in this world, and have no compunction whatsoever when I mention that I am the bride of God.

Goodnight.